Combat System Refinements

The Current combat system is not solid, or balanced, we need refinement to the current concept (not necessarily change)

Current combat system gives us around 5-6 seconds of survivability when fighting. This is vastly to low, and needs to be buffed to around 20 to 25 seconds.

In order to do this, we need to reduce damage by around 70%. Now, keep in mind this is not actual weapon damage, but the amount of damage done upon a target. The difference is what you actually deal, to what the weapon actually has as a base. This change can be made by changing the mechanic damage done to shields or hull (or armor).

So if you hit now for 3000 damage, your damage will be changed to dealing 900 damage.

900/2sec = 450 dps.

If your damage is 150-250 now, you will deal 75 damage.

250/1= 250 dps

((note i picked here the highest damage, and lowest damage from plasma for examples for damage as the other weapons are similar in dps or impact (Beam/Rail)).

Now, we need to test this ratio’s of damage Vs the current defensive mechanics to see if they are balanced or not.

(T2 Shield Booster)1427 shields over 8 seconds. 179 Hps

(T4 Shield booster)14712 over 21 seconds. 700 hps

At the above damage rates, Frigate will be unkillable (rank 4) and rank 2 will die quickly.

we learn from this that this module needs to be fixed with the above damage rates.

Correction made

T2 shield booster duration increased from 8 to 16. 358 HPS.

T4 shield booster reduced from 14712 over 21 seconds, to 7500 over 20 seconds. 375 HPS.

This places Tier 2 attack ship at regenerating 358 shields per a second, and the interceptor doing 250 hps. From here, we further the dps increase of interceptors by boosting their amount of rockets carried, and making them relay on rocket use to kill attack ships. Frigates, however will be not killed by an interceptor unless there is more then one interceptor. The desired effect sought, as interceptors at the moment are just running around killing everything. Their role should be changed from a damage ship, to a support / scout role.

From these changes we will see shielding tanks last around 20 seconds of constant fire, possibly 25 or 30 with superior items. This leaves us to the last correction of shield tanking mechanics, Passive regeneration.

Passive Shield Regeneration

The levels of these mods are simply to high. with the above changes, shield tanks will be indestructible. So, these modules need a change.

Capacitor power relay needs to be reduced from 100% to 30-35%.

Shield Capacitor Needs to be increased from 20-50% to 55-65%.

Additional Shield changes needed

All resistance passive modules need to be added, for 55 all resistance.

All Specific Resistance Passive modules need to be increased to 75 Per each type.

Shield Capacitor resistance to all damage needs to be increased to 75 or 100.

Add New “specific” Resistance shield capacitors, for 125 resistance to each type.

Armor (Hull) Tanking

Unlike shield tanking, armor should work in another capacity. Resistance on armor should be higher then shielding, but the repair of armor should have cycle intervals. The reason for this is because if you are being hit, every 2nd or 3rd hit go’s to natural shield regeneration (that every ship has) If we do not want the armor tanks to have shields, we should consider changing these races to have regenerative armor (Bio-organic Armor) Plating. Then we can work both on the same concepts. empire for example with armor/hull as a life, and jericho with hull/shields.

Other wise i will continue on.

Since we are regenerating in intervals (because of natural shield regeneration) we want it so that the ship can take a beating. this means, armor tanks should excel at taking damage through mitigation, not raw regeneration (like shields). For this reason we will change the war armor repair works to the following concepts

Repairs 650 armor, ever 3 seconds for 15 seconds. (216 HPS)

If we look, the hps is lower then shields (350+) but the repair amount is higher. because there will be cycle intervals (heals every 3 seconds) The armor needs to absorb a large amount of damage (min 50% of it) as a result resistance items to armor should be near double of that which shields have (Its hard to say with out knowing the exact X amount of resistance = X % of damage reduction). but we will work off the principle of 50% Damage reduction via resistance modules like

Increases all resistance by 215 for 15 seconds 35 energy per second consumed (8s CD).

(Shield resistance will be typically around 25-30%)

(Armor resistance will typically be around 35-40%)

Lets say the above is true

T2 rapid fire does 250 dps

T2 Heavy plasma does 450 dps

40% Of 250 dps = 150 dps - 150/216hps - Live

40% of 450 dps= 270 dps.- 270/216hps - Dead

So i this case, we find the same as the above damage ratio, captors cannot kill a target with out rockets,missiles or another partner helping. in both situations, the game becomes balanced.

Concerns

some people may say this will delegitimize the interceptor, causing them to be useless. But this is in fact not the case, this will cause interceptors to want to be flown in packs, which will cause you to have a wing man to depend on. this will improve the chances of survival not only because the damage is lowered, and the interceptor tank is increased, but because you also have a wing man to break off and get the guy on you. All other ships will be balanced. Attack ship vs frigates will put up a good fight, however in the end frigates will win because of the superior tank.

This leaves us to our last address of battle

Mobility

our last issue is mobility based issues

Interceptors run circles around other ships, and the gap of speed and mass is vastly two different, as a result the following should be changed.

Interceptor Weight

From 40-60mt to 75-85mt

Attack ship Weight

From 200mt to 125-135mt

Frigate

From 4350 to 225-250

Destroyer

From 8700 to 320-340

Cruiser

From 16500 to 430-450

Additional Changes

  • Adding a “skill” for each ship research.

  • Each ship now has a Level 1 to 5.

  • Each ship also has a passive bonus per each level researched.

  • Tier 1 is no longer vastly inferior to Tier 2, Rather, each ship has a role.

  • Tier 2 ships now require the previous ship skill to reach level 4 to fly, and is no longer based on rank.

Example, Tier 1 frigate is now a combat ship, but tier 2 is now a mine laying -support frigate. It has an ability to drop a mine field of suicidal drones (that have explosives strapped to the head of their hull) These drones heals allies in the field, but suicide themselves on enemies (basically a mine) These fields last 3 minutes.

Making changes like this will make strategy in both matches, and in the open universe. This will also resolve the problem that when open universe is released, of tier 5 ships running around destroying anything in their path.

Still yet more change

things like mine fields are great, and they really help the matches to be more dynamic, mine fields should all last min of 3 minutes. we also need more things like this in the game. one idea is as follows

Tier 2 Destroyer - Interdiction ship Skill: Drops a 5km bubble, that slows ships traveling through it by 50%. lasts 2 minutes. 45 second cool down.

adding stuff like this will make the game dynamic, and combat much more realistic, and fun.

Не могу сказать, что поддерживаю идею. Если реализовать ваши предложения, то может возникнуть множество неприятных ситуаций. Например, в “разведке боем” осталось только два корабля с каждой стороны (капитаны мертвы). Тогда, если они не способны уничтожить один другого, то автоматически выиграет та команда, которая имеет больше очков, не зависимо от мастерства пилотов, что совсем не хорошо. Согласен, что такое бывает (если вообще бывает) очень редко, но всё-же.

Кроме того необходимость работы в команде при убийстве почти любого корабля мягко говоря не является большим удобством для новичков, которые не совсем разобрались в тонкостях игры. Скорее всего они решат, что игра слишком сложная или полна читеров или баланс в игре кривой и т.п. Скорее всего, после этого они просто удалят клиент и раздражённо начнут поиски новой игры. Что, опять же, совсем не хорошо.

Про реалистичность вывод тоже весьма сомнительный - где вы наблюдали реальное сражение космических истребителей? Да и если проводить аналогии с современными сражениями, то мне сложно представить самолёт, выдерживающий непрерывный (причём с очень высоким процентом попаданий!) огонь в течении 20-30 секунд.

Теперь про “весёлость” полученных сражений - если игрок, да ещё и с поддержкой своей команды, будет непрерывно “пилить” вражеский корабль в течении 30 секунд, а тот после этого просто уйдёт за астероиды под защиту команды и восстановит всю защиту, то это вызовет намного больше раздражения и отрицательных эмоций, чем тоже самое, но с временем в 5-8 секунд. Тем более, что при таком малом времени он (скорее всего) просто не успеет спрятаться.

ps: прошу прощения, если я понял не все ваши предложения или часть понял не верно - никогда не считал своё знание английского своей самой сильной стороной

I understand your concern with the tank increase, but its not much, you are changing the hits from 5 to 10 or at most 15 some where in this area.

It seems that people really want a first person shoot, with m4’s and bazookahs. Yes i know this is the russian mentality, but it will not work in a space game.

The game needs to be fixed at least to 20-25 seconds of tank. Believe me, it will be good. You just cant regenerate shielding passively like you do now, with the changes i suggested. You also have to plan for the future.

eventually if this game wants to thrive, it will have an open universe. If that is the case, then when happens when you die in 1-2 hits?

how will you protect your space against a highly organized group when then 1 shot your entire team?

Such game play would be utter fail.

The system needs to be changed for the survival of the game. 1-2 shot kill in this game, will have to go if it wants to survive, there is no other option other then stupidity and insanity. and i for one, who has put in 50 pages of recommendations, and over 150 forum posts, will not stay with these current mechanics.

Lastly,

there is another space game being released fully in about a year. This means, that this game has 1 year to make it, and make it right, and in the developers sense of time, that is not a lot of time. You are looking at 3-4 major content patches max. With 4-6 smaller ones, depending on the team.

I Firmly believe this game will succeed, with the above changes, with conquerable space, and with other additions like trading, mining.

and i firmly believe with out those things, It will fail and quickly.

Uhmari, you can use the English-language forum

This is an action session based game. It must be fast paced to attract the players. Btw on T4 there is quite powerful tanking and speed+maneuverability. Basically skilled Jerricho fighters pilots are nearly unkillable without focus fire of 3+ people. So no need to boost tanking capabilities. As for me, we have a quite good balance of survivablilty now. It is an action, it is fast and dynamic, it is good and people loves it in current state.

Skilled players are not only using shield and armor to survive, but also using their hands, mind and allied support. Some pilots are unkillable. If you make them live 20-25 sec by default, they will survive forever. To much difference with piloting skills.

GM - I use it, but developers are not there. I put russian here, but russians told me my russian is bad and to put english, so i did.

Cynep - The game is not balanced, You are out of your mind. I get hit for 10-15k at least 15-20 times in the last week.

That is 1 shot for my toon, Most of these shots are 85%-98% of my Hp.

I am a Seasons PvPER and mmo-gamer. My ship is build with pure resistance and passive tank. Yes, I can tank, but even my tank is unstable, and 1 ceptor can kill me.

So the game is absolutely 10000% not balanced.

Uhmari, если рассматривать ввод открытой вселенной как неизбежность, то вы безусловно правы. Текущая скорость боя в таких условиях действительно была бы неприемлемой. Однако у меня есть некоторые сомнения относительно перспектив ввода открытой вселенной. Я не уверен, что разработчики хотят превратить игру в клон Eve online с клавиатурным управлением кораблём. Это безусловно превосходная игра, но у неё совсем другие привлекательные стороны. Насколько мне известно, Star Conflict с самого начала позиционировала себя как аркадную игру. Честно говоря, я не очень верю в то, что разработчики собираются настолько радикально менять организацию боёв. А уж добыча ресурсов по образу Eve вообще не представляется мне совместимой с аркадным образом игры. Я думаю, что основной деятельностью в игре останутся сражения по нынешнему принципу: “начало боя – *выстрелы, взрывы, шипение лазеров, доклады о повреждениях и т.д.* – победа / поражение”. А в таких условиях нынешняя продолжительность жизни кораблей под огнём представляется мне более чем достаточной.

ps: по поводу танкования: сомневаюсь, что в такой игре вообще уместно говорить о танках как о игровой роли. Сами слова истребитель и танк являются очень далёкими друг от друга. Поэтому пока в игре не появится кто-то побольше и потолще (если такой корабль вообще появится), то говорить о чётко выделенной роли танка просто невозможно

GM - I use it, but developers are not there. I put russian here, but russians told me my russian is bad and to put english, so i did.

Cynep - The game is not balanced, You are out of your mind. I get hit for 10-15k at least 15-20 times in the last week.

That is 1 shot for my toon, Most of these shots are 85%-98% of my Hp.

I am a Seasons PvPER and mmo-gamer. My ship is build with pure resistance and passive tank. Yes, I can tank, but even my tank is unstable, and 1 ceptor can kill me.

So the game is absolutely 10000% not balanced.

Zerk - You only support my position with this post. Because you make the distinction that “only rank 4” is this way. Notice how you passively do not mention rank 1-3. This serves to show that not all levels are balanced.

As for survival of players because of their abilities, its ok. Its the defining factor between good and great players, They are never unkillable, They are just unkillable in this map. When world pvp comes for example, you will have no where to run. and as a result, you will die (eventually). Lastly

The experienced players are vastly fewer then the none experienced players, and it is never good to base the game off the experienced players over the none experienced, What needs to happen is the following

All ship states are limited by XYZ Regeneration, and Amount rates.

Skill should indirectly effect survivability. For example, I often use asteroids to dodge fire, and kite around and rough sharp turns etc, to regenerate my sheilds (passively).

Such mechanics are totally exceptable. However,

I should not be able for example to regenerate shields to full by dodging around 1 or 2 asteroids, it should only be a means for a chance for me to get away (Based on my ability to make sudden turns, that the follower is not predicting, and has no time to react to).

This is the hight of superior flying capability.

Nikita, I have been told by various staff members, the game will go to open universe (eventually). This was in fact posted in a public note here by a Staff member telling us what the universe will include.

this individual mentioned that planets will Probably not be in the game. But that the universe was being worked on.

My other source told me that the universe project has been started but wont be out for a while, and that its contents are top secret.

So yes, a universe is coming.

With that being said (I apologize if i spoke about this out of place but if staff mentions it in public, i consider it not a secret unless i am told specific things about it).

So we learn this is not an arcane game and it is turning into a game like eve. But this does not mean it has to be like it (Exactly) You cant get around things like star systems, and general “types of play” like Trade etc

В таком случае, если бои будут происходить по принципу столкновения в открытой вселенной, а не так как сейчас, то я полностью разделяю ваш взгляд на баланс игры. Для открытой вселенной настолько быстрые бои даже при встрече один на один действительно неприемлемы.

ps: Спасибо за предоставленную информацию. Если она верна и концепция будет реализована в обозримом будущем, то остаётся только радоваться.

I Totally agree, it is excellent news.

It is a testament that the Developers are listening, This is a very good thing, because flexibility makes the game into something Great. i ts because of conversations like this, that the players get educated. the developers generally have the idea of whats going on.

Yes, 1-2 shot combat will destroy the game in open universe, and in fact it will destroy the game completely regardless of open universe or not.

These balances are needed. I am not saying we should all be unstoppable or un-killable i am only suggesting we should like around 10-15 hits on average, and 20-25 hits. This is a large buff to defense, but these changes can be made through simply mechanic changes like making smaller ships do less damage to larger ships through some sort of internal scripting mechanic. This will auto-balance a lot of the modules, and from there all we have to do is nerf the defensive regeneration of stuff like power capacitor relay (+100-150% Shield regen).

the changes are not a big change, but they are a big change in terms of the effects.

for example,

not i spawn 360 second cool down shield boost. 17,500 / 20 seconds. 875 repair per a second, for 20 second.

but there is a time between cool downs where you have 0. this is what is killing people left and right. its not the damage (except the damage that comes from heavy weapons, most weapons are ok or even some need to be buffed).

if you put dps between 150-200 (interceptor) 450-500 (Attack ship) and probably like 700-800 (frigate) Everything will work out with the reduced cool downs + energy cost increase (preventing spam).

IT will work, I am sure of it. It will also prevent a massive rework of modules, because most modules are in the target area.

i feel however ew modules need to be buffed, and even energy Sap or neutralizers should be added.